Unpopular Opinion (Ginga version)

[WolfKing]

Ever since Orion became the protagonist in GDWO, Ginga has gradually started to drop in the quality of Characterization, Storyline and likability

Please don't misunderstand, it's not that i hate Orion. I've started to like him better now in GDN, and I only hated him in TLW, and found him awesome if occasionally irritating in GDWO.

But the point is, the way GNG and Weed managed to keep the characters and storylines compelling throughout due to the fact that aside from our likable lead character, we got interesting information from other main and supporting characters too. Storylines were solid and thrilling, and the endings in GNG and especially in GDW are absolutely rich in emotion and heart. Yoshi had great understanding of the "Heart of the story"

When Orion came, Yoshi seems to give him much more attention than others except for Sirius. Orion is heavy-handedly portrayed as a more fierce main character, and heavy-handedness combined with absolutely zero subtlety Orion sometimes (in TLW especially) came of as a prick and even a sociopath. His laugh when preparing to kill Blanca in GDWO and his overeager "YAHOOOO!" in TLW when the final battle against Monsoon starts.

Yoshi indulges Orion with praise and and attention so that the other previous protagonists become cardboard characters with very little importance or contribution to the plot. Gin and Weed for example have turned into emotionless robots, and Kyoushiro into a joke and a butt-monkey.

The morals from previous stories drop away and everyone think that Orion's insistence on killing and killing is righteous. While i didn't like Sirius' morals much either (it made his personality exaggerated) the fact that Orion and many others called him selfish, insane and a burden comes of as harsh and tragically sad. Everyone feel like hypocrites because of this. This is my point of likability.

The storylines focus heavily on Orion with manga covers mostly being closeups of him, and stories like GDWO, while has awesome moments like the beginning among others feels like a slight retread of GNG and GDW and has less of the Epic Coming-of-age scope. TLW had a nice concept too, but it was wasted on Orion and Sirius' conflict, and i found the conflict interesting due to it's edginess, but the execution was poor. I also mentioned that it focuses too much on Orion and not enough on new characters, who have little interesting qualities except Unsai who is eccentric and awesome as hell.
In GDW there were several chapters without Weed appearing, especially in the Russian arc and these ensure that we get more information and focus on the others, and we are able to care more about them therefore. But in TLW, many of these characters are just killed off just like that, even those who have appeared ever since GNG.

ANYWAY, GDN has started to fix these flaws up, and hopefully Yoshi manages to return Ginga to it's former glory. Sorry if the article is messy, and i don't mean to be harsh or anything.

[Gingaddict]

I prefer Smith as an old man in GDW.

I feel like I've already talked before about how stupid and grating I find younger Smith's voice in the anime, but it's not only that. I was always puzzled as to how exactly Smith became a commanding officer with his juvenile attitude and clear lack of strength or skill. Whereas, I love his stoic determination, fighting abilities and 'wise elderly guardian' role in GDW.

I always preferred Smith as an old man, he reminded me of Gandalf in a way!

Ever since Orion became the protagonist in GDWO, Ginga has gradually started to drop in the quality of Characterization, Storyline and likability

Please don't misunderstand, it's not that i hate Orion. I've started to like him better now in GDN, and I only hated him in TLW, and found him awesome if occasionally irritating in GDWO.

But the point is, the way GNG and Weed managed to keep the characters and storylines compelling throughout due to the fact that aside from our likable lead character, we got interesting information from other main and supporting characters too. Storylines were solid and thrilling, and the endings in GNG and especially in GDW are absolutely rich in emotion and heart. Yoshi had great understanding of the "Heart of the story"

When Orion came, Yoshi seems to give him much more attention than others except for Sirius. Orion is heavy-handedly portrayed as a more fierce main character, and heavy-handedness combined with absolutely zero subtlety Orion sometimes (in TLW especially) came of as a prick and even a sociopath. His laugh when preparing to kill Blanca in GDWO and his overeager "YAHOOOO!" in TLW when the final battle against Monsoon starts.

Yoshi indulges Orion with praise and and attention so that the other previous protagonists become cardboard characters with very little importance or contribution to the plot. Gin and Weed for example have turned into emotionless robots, and Kyoushiro into a joke and a butt-monkey.

The morals from previous stories drop away and everyone think that Orion's insistence on killing and killing is righteous. While i didn't like Sirius' morals much either (it made his personality exaggerated) the fact that Orion and many others called him selfish, insane and a burden comes of as harsh and tragically sad. Everyone feel like hypocrites because of this. This is my point of likability.

The storylines focus heavily on Orion with manga covers mostly being closeups of him, and stories like GDWO, while has awesome moments like the beginning among others feels like a slight retread of GNG and GDW and has less of the Epic Coming-of-age scope. TLW had a nice concept too, but it was wasted on Orion and Sirius' conflict, and i found the conflict interesting due to it's edginess, but the execution was poor. I also mentioned that it focuses too much on Orion and not enough on new characters, who have little interesting qualities except Unsai who is eccentric and awesome as hell.
In GDW there were several chapters without Weed appearing, especially in the Russian arc and these ensure that we get more information and focus on the others, and we are able to care more about them therefore. But in TLW, many of these characters are just killed off just like that, even those who have appeared ever since GNG.

ANYWAY, GDN has started to fix these flaws up, and hopefully Yoshi manages to return Ginga to it's former glory. Sorry if the article is messy, and i don't mean to be harsh or anything.

I agree, ever since Orion and co came, there's been too much characters than the series can handle and I've noticed the faults more with writing female characters and repetitive story-lines and Sirius pointing out the wrong doings of the Ohu army really put basically everyone in a bad spot over how they're really handling things. Also the series has become terrible withleaving alot of characters with unresolved issues like Koyuki and Chibi the bear cub

Sirius is one of the better characters in the series, you guys are just mean

I know theres a lot of Sirius hate due to his over-righteousness but I honestly think that makes him one of the better characters in the series. Characters like Weed and Sirius with their peace-loving attitudes are rare in the series, and I think them being that way makes them important. I dont think Weed ever went overboard with his righteousness (yes, even when he banished Jerome, I think he was still in the right because Jerome deliberately disobeyed him), and while Sirius did go overboard sometimes, I don't think it ever made him a bad character. Characters have flaws, a good character does frustrating things. That's what makes them interesting.

Also did Sirius's attitude not push the story forward? Yoshi did a lot of weird stuff in TLW with pacing but at least Sirius acting the way he did had a purpose. Also seeing his interactions with Monsoon were refreshing to the series, a series where bears were often described as mindless monsters. Also even if Akakabuto was a violent villain, Monsoon had some ground to stand on with having a grudge against dogs, it wasn't total mindless slaughter. His siblings were killed because of something they couldn't help- who their father was. And as a result they were all driven out of their homes, if not killed. It wasn't wrong of Sirius to try to put an end to the chain of revenge.

Though, I didn't totally like Sirius in TLW I do agree he was good written character (good written in ginga terms anyway!).

Brace yourselves.

Kurotora is overrated and I'm not sure why he's alive in TLW.

(PS Excellent topic idea)

(PPS Astor please forgive me)

I TOTALLY AGREE! He feels so incomplete without at least one of his brothers beside him and he just feels like a copy of Kyoshiro now.

Hougen's death in the manga was even more stupid than his anime death
His anime death was really dumb, but my dudes, his manga one just made me go "wow, really?". Like who is this cop who for whatever reason has been tracking down this dumb dog for vengeance?? The anime one was really silly but at least it was sort of in keeping with the tone.

the GDW manga was an absolute mess and the anime was better because it condensed things and stopped at a decent point.

Agreed 100%

Also...

Akame is overrated
He's a Gary Stu and his predecesor (Hakutaka) is the biggest Gary Stu Ginga has ever seen.
I also hate that in later mangas, especially TLW, Akame gets more screentime and recognition than actual leaders. Screw Weed, dear Akame, tell us what we're supposed to do.

I agree with you both, it feels like the manga when against its own morals when it threw in that guy with the gun. Heck, at least with the anime death we can make it up like one of the ghosts of Ohu did it! lol.

As for the Akame thing, you don't know how long I've waited for someone to talk about this! Akame is gotta be one of the frustrating characters I have to read about in the series. WHY IS HE SO STRONG? He's meant to be an elder yet he jumps around and heals like he's only a young kid! ABSOLUTE RUBBISH! He even gets more screen-time than any of the new characters that I don't think I know the new characters very well because of him! I HATE AKAME! HATE HIM! HATE HIM! JUST KILL HIM OFF ALREADY!

[Spirit Tree]

I think Chutora should have been in place over Kurotora.

I don’t know why that is, but I just have the sudden thinking that it should have been Chutora instead of Kurotora on the spot. To me, Chutora seems to have more dignity and benefits than Kurotora. Too bad Chutora isn’t alive anymore. But I think Yoshi could have given more potential to Chutora than Kurotora if Chutora was still there.

[skinklegs]

The "cowardly" characters like Hyena, GB, Sasuke, and Smith circa GNG are some of the most interesting characters in Ginga because they actually have some depth. I tend to care about them a lot more than generic strong brave good guy #62.

Related, generic strong brave guy characters like Jerome would be a lot more interesting if they weren't the overwhelming majority.

[Atha]

The "cowardly" characters like Hyena, GB, Sasuke, and Smith circa GNG are some of the most interesting characters in Ginga because they actually have some depth. I tend to care about them a lot more than generic strong brave good guy #62.

Related, generic strong brave guy characters like Jerome would be a lot more interesting if they weren't the overwhelming majority.

Agreed the characters who fit the Cowardly Lion trope in the end come off as way braver than the fearless guys like Weed or Orion who never feel a moment of dread or have to fight against their instinct of self preservation.

[Wolpard]

The "cowardly" characters like Hyena, GB, Sasuke, and Smith circa GNG are some of the most interesting characters in Ginga because they actually have some depth. I tend to care about them a lot more than generic strong brave good guy #62.

Related, generic strong brave guy characters like Jerome would be a lot more interesting if they weren't the overwhelming majority.

I agree. I also feel this way about most characters that don't fit the generic strong brave good guy trope. But also the badass trope in general. eg. Sirius, who gets a lot of hate in the fandom, but I think he is one of the better characters since he breaks the mold. He is kinda like Weed in a way I suppose? but more extreme of course. even Weed is kinda different in that regard.

[Atha]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

[Gingaddict]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

I'd love to see more of that too, as I've seen some of the fandom freak when they actually do show dog body language being displayed so it must be rare.

[Wolpard]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

Hell I think at this point I just wish they displayed any emotion at all. Their facial expressions are always the same.

[Atha]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

Hell I think at this point I just wish they displayed any emotion at all. Their facial expressions are always the same.

Me too, they used to be way more expressive... Even if they never were as expressive as I'd like, now it's them being frozen as while the only thing that shows mirth is them say 'haha', tears to show sorrow, tiny wrinkle to show anger...

[Wolpard]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

Hell I think at this point I just wish they displayed any emotion at all. Their facial expressions are always the same.

Me too, they used to be way more expressive... Even if they never were as expressive as I'd like, now it's them being frozen as while the only thing that shows mirth is them say 'haha', tears to show sorrow, tiny wrinkle to show anger...

And constantly licking their lips for no reason. Lol these poor dogs are gonna need some chapstick.

[Gingaddict]

Unpopular with Yoshi but I wish the dogs acted more like dogs. Like play bow, ears flattening when intimidated, tail between legs, lying on their backs to show submission, fur bristled to show aggression, giving apology licks, giving puppydog eyes... I think it'd be more fun in humorous scenes too than chasing each other with logs. For example, in Beastars, a tail wag betrays a canine's emotions.They get distracted/addicted by chasing and retrieving objects for fun. Contagious howling. Hating flea season. And so on.

Hell I think at this point I just wish they displayed any emotion at all. Their facial expressions are always the same.

Me too, they used to be way more expressive... Even if they never were as expressive as I'd like, now it's them being frozen as while the only thing that shows mirth is them say 'haha', tears to show sorrow, tiny wrinkle to show anger...

Yeah, I've noticed that change, especially in TLW when Sirius was bleeding to death. Weed being the biggest example as he used to so expressive but now he's just a robot head stuck in a dog's body lol.

[Atha]

I know many dislike the anime, and I really hate its lazy af animation/art.

But the anime's writing > the manga's writing.

Actions like exiling Jerome, or Jerome shielding Weed from the cold actually have consequences. Jerome's death wish isn't just words that sound cool, and he actually feels guilt for Kaibitsu. No Deus Ex Pet Dogs by miraculously healed Gin. No Deus Ex Humans. No stupidly traitor Tesshin (but ignoring his real father was dumb). Everyone gets an arc and a time to develop as a character and to be heroic. Toube's death leaves a bigger impact. The story is more linear with less needless sidetracking. There's actually a female character who fights. No toilet humor, but still there's humor.

[Wolpard]

I know many dislike the anime, and I really hate its lazy af animation/art.

But the anime's writing > the manga's writing.

Actions like exiling Jerome, or Jerome shielding Weed from the cold actually have consequences. Jerome's death wish isn't just words that sound cool, and he actually feels guilt for Kaibitsu. No Deus Ex Pet Dogs by miraculously healed Gin. No Deus Ex Humans. No stupidly traitor Tesshin (but ignoring his real father was dumb). Everyone gets an arc and a time to develop as a character and to be heroic. Toube's death leaves a bigger impact. The story is more linear with less needless sidetracking. There's actually a female character who fights. No toilet humor, but still there's humor.

I agree! I think they really polished up the writing and made a stronger story. Also as much as I still don't really like Hougen's death in the anime, its better than what the manga does.

[Atha]

I know many dislike the anime, and I really hate its lazy af animation/art.

But the anime's writing > the manga's writing.

Actions like exiling Jerome, or Jerome shielding Weed from the cold actually have consequences. Jerome's death wish isn't just words that sound cool, and he actually feels guilt for Kaibitsu. No Deus Ex Pet Dogs by miraculously healed Gin. No Deus Ex Humans. No stupidly traitor Tesshin (but ignoring his real father was dumb). Everyone gets an arc and a time to develop as a character and to be heroic. Toube's death leaves a bigger impact. The story is more linear with less needless sidetracking. There's actually a female character who fights. No toilet humor, but still there's humor.

I agree! I think they really polished up the writing and made a stronger story. Also as much as I still don't really like Hougen's death in the anime, its better than what the manga does.

Honestly the execution was not done well with everyone going "...anyways" once Hougen got zapped, but with the themes of divine justice, the punishment of evil, and all the ghosts appearing to haunt Hougen, a lightning strike was pretty apt.

Also died in a moment of hubris.

[Shining Sirius]

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion?

Terumune was a crappy father to Masamune and should have rightfully felt bad about it.

[Leomonade]

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion?

Terumune was a crappy father to Masamune and should have rightfully felt bad about it.

Oh he REALLY was! Yamabiko was much younger.. so after Terumune failed with the way he was harsh and cold with Masamune he clearly regretted his past actions and was the opposite to Yamabiko (for the short while he even raised him lol).
Terumune was like Weed is with Orion. The difference was that Masamune was clearly a much softer child and his father's actions shaped him into a very bad and obsessive direction.

[Shining Sirius]

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion?

Terumune was a crappy father to Masamune and should have rightfully felt bad about it.

Oh he REALLY was! Yamabiko was much younger.. so after Terumune failed with the way he was harsh and cold with Masamune he clearly regretted his past actions and was the opposite to Yamabiko (for the short while he even raised him lol).
Terumune was like Weed is with Orion. The difference was that Masamune was clearly a much softer child and his father's actions shaped him into a very bad and obsessive direction.

Exactly, Leomonade! Couldn't have said it better myself.
It's hard not to feel sorry for Masamune during his upbringing... even he recognised that his dad was bullying him.
For Terumune to work Masamune to the bone with training only to then turn around and tell him that he favoured love in a leader over strength... yeah, I can't blame Masamune for being pissed. His dad essentially turned him into a war machine and never bothered teaching him about any of the stuff that actually mattered. To me, Masamune's upbringing really just felt like a bitter stepping stone towards Yamabiko's succession, since Terumune himself seemed to recognise that he had failed with Masamune.
Yeah, treat your child like a failure despite them having done everything you've asked and then wonder why they act out. Flawless parenting, Terumune.

[Digsu]

Apparently this is an unpopular opinion?

Terumune was a crappy father to Masamune and should have rightfully felt bad about it.

Oh he REALLY was! Yamabiko was much younger.. so after Terumune failed with the way he was harsh and cold with Masamune he clearly regretted his past actions and was the opposite to Yamabiko (for the short while he even raised him lol).
Terumune was like Weed is with Orion. The difference was that Masamune was clearly a much softer child and his father's actions shaped him into a very bad and obsessive direction.

Exactly, Leomonade! Couldn't have said it better myself.
It's hard not to feel sorry for Masamune during his upbringing... even he recognised that his dad was bullying him.
For Terumune to work Masamune to the bone with training only to then turn around and tell him that he favoured love in a leader over strength... yeah, I can't blame Masamune for being pissed. His dad essentially turned him into a war machine and never bothered teaching him about any of the stuff that actually mattered. To me, Masamune's upbringing really just felt like a bitter stepping stone towards Yamabiko's succession, since Terumune himself seemed to recognise that he had failed with Masamune.
Yeah, treat your child like a failure despite them having done everything you've asked and then wonder why they act out. Flawless parenting, Terumune.

tbh there's one thing about Masamune's backstory that's always confused me: his age. By the time of his death, he was seven years old, meaning that by the time Yamabiko was born, he must have been at least six. That's not exactly young by dog standards, so it just makes me wonder what Terumune was thinking - if he decided that Masamune was a failure just for failing the test, why did he just sit around for half a decade without fathering another heir? Did Terumune keep clinging onto some hope that Masamune could be made into a good leader, until he finally had to admit he was a lost cause? The fact that we know absolutely nothing of what happened between Masamune failing the test and Yamabiko being appointed Terumune's successor, including how Terumune treated Masamune during all those years, doesn't help.

Now that I think about it, are we even supposed to feel bad for Masamune for the harsh training he was put through? This is the same series where starving and beating up puppies is considered a super good training method, compared to that Terumune's trial was pretty tame. Or was it supposed to be an intentional jab at the concept? Who knows.


Sorry, I know this is off-topic, but it just seriously bugs me.

[Leomonade]

Oh he REALLY was! Yamabiko was much younger.. so after Terumune failed with the way he was harsh and cold with Masamune he clearly regretted his past actions and was the opposite to Yamabiko (for the short while he even raised him lol).
Terumune was like Weed is with Orion. The difference was that Masamune was clearly a much softer child and his father's actions shaped him into a very bad and obsessive direction.

Exactly, Leomonade! Couldn't have said it better myself.
It's hard not to feel sorry for Masamune during his upbringing... even he recognised that his dad was bullying him.
For Terumune to work Masamune to the bone with training only to then turn around and tell him that he favoured love in a leader over strength... yeah, I can't blame Masamune for being pissed. His dad essentially turned him into a war machine and never bothered teaching him about any of the stuff that actually mattered. To me, Masamune's upbringing really just felt like a bitter stepping stone towards Yamabiko's succession, since Terumune himself seemed to recognise that he had failed with Masamune.
Yeah, treat your child like a failure despite them having done everything you've asked and then wonder why they act out. Flawless parenting, Terumune.

tbh there's one thing about Masamune's backstory that's always confused me: his age. By the time of his death, he was seven years old, meaning that by the time Yamabiko was born, he must have been at least six. That's not exactly young by dog standards, so it just makes me wonder what Terumune was thinking - if he decided that Masamune was a failure just for failing the test, why did he just sit around for half a decade without fathering another heir? Did Terumune keep clinging onto some hope that Masamune could be made into a good leader, until he finally had to admit he was a lost cause? The fact that we know absolutely nothing of what happened between Masamune failing the test and Yamabiko being appointed Terumune's successor, including how Terumune treated Masamune during all those years, doesn't help.

Now that I think about it, are we even supposed to feel bad for Masamune for the harsh training he was put through? This is the same series where starving and beating up puppies is considered a super good training method, compared to that Terumune's trial was pretty tame. Or was it supposed to be an intentional jab at the concept? Who knows.


Sorry, I know this is off-topic, but it just seriously bugs me.

I mean the climbing test Terumune did was when Masamune was a young child. And I saw it more as training rather than something like a final exam.
The series keeps telling how tough the ninja training is so it must have taken many years... but even Kurojaki is never seen being heartless to his followers. I assume Terumune was in the mindset of "I need to be cold and cruel for my son to be strong and independent". He kept pushing and pushing Masamune until it was too late when he realized his mistake he could no longer fix it. And that's why he chose a literal toddler as the next leader instead of the adult son he had raised and trained for years. Terumune had no idea how Yamabiko would turn out but still chose him over Masamune...