Best character development and worst

General discussion of topics that encompass more than one of Yoshihiro Takahashi's series, as well as topics relating to Takahashi himself.
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Atha
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Best character development and worst

Post by Atha »

Who do you think has evolved best through the series until now/their death? Who got inconsistent to the worse?
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Gingastar »

Kyoushiro used to have some good development until about over halfway through GDW where it seemed as if everything about him was put into reverse. He became a comic relief, crying, jerk instead of someone who was simply a little hot-headed and rash. He's even worse now in TLW, where any kind of development that he used to have is completely gone. He does things that are out of character and just bizarre for someone like him.

Yoshi has really botched Kyoushiro over the years, and it's a shame to see his character get such sad treatment.

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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Atha »

^Truth, that's my vote for worst character assassination too. I mean, he tended to to be rash ('when I get mad I don't see anything else around'), play rough for fun (he'd playfully headbutt Teru or kick Jounichi), so in the latter half of GDW him being more funny I took it as him letting loose after no longer having to be the responsible surrogate big brother for dozens of pups...

BUT in GDWO and TLW not only all those become extremes, but his most defining trait was always to put the younger ones as top priority (in GDW he even tells Weed he'll kill him if Weed's morals ever get twisted and affect his pups). In TLW he completely loses that and it's not even called out, it's like it has been forgotten by the narrator and characters. That's just not Kyoushirou anymore.
Last edited by Atha on Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Dragon »

Yup, Kyoshiro definitely wins first place with 'worst'.
As for best.. hard to say. Kyoshiro can win best and worst LOL because he starts out rash and such, but learn to stop doing such things after Toube dies. He went through a lot on his journey with Weed.

However, I'd like to appreciate Riki's development too. He starts off a crybaby who just only wanted to be with his mama forever, but once separated, pushed himself to still see her and be strong. Gin was never shown to worry about his mom and siblings. His care was for Daisuke, and that's not bad, but he still permanently left him for his duty as a leader. Riki grew to return to the thing he wanted most, his mother.
Despite being the runt of the pack, he grew up strong and still showed his determination. His undying goal of taking out Akakabuto for Gohei never died even through Amnesia. He did the impossible and gained the trust of a thousand dogs just to take the giant down.

I know Jerome has some journey he went through as well, but I think it's a bit sloppily done. Interesting, but still sloppy.
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Re: Best character development and worst

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MurasakiTsuki wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:52 am I'd personally have to say GB. I feel like his character developed a lot through GDW, especially at his death.

I agree with Atha and Gingastar about Kyoushirou being the worst developed character. Takahashi butchered his character and it's really sad cause he used to be one of my favs :/ Especially what happened with him and Orion. That was SO out of character, something Kyoushirou would never do in a million years.
Yeah. I like to theorize that, in the manga when Hougen orders his minions to smash his head into a rock, it's to make Kyoshiro braindead like Tesshin did Genba. However, Kyoshiro didn't fully go away like Genba did, but a big piece of him was lost. After the head injury, Kyoshiro does some weird things, like peeing on his enemies and crying hysterically and I don't recall him ever being his usual self after it or the series taking him seriously anymore.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Kasi »

I think Akakama is another who evolved and developed the most. He has many set backs and it took him a long time to change through interactions with several characters but he got there. In real life, I think he's the kind of guy who would never change, but it's a manga and it's done fairly convincingly.

I'm actually a bit reserved to say much about Kyoushirou until more of the WEED is complete. I wonder if his manga counterpart is just quite different from his anime portrayal apart from the 2-3 volumes which introduced him. I remember I didn't really like him while reading the monkey arc much, but he wasn't a big part of that.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Atha »

Okami wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:42 am As for best.. hard to say. Kyoshiro can win best and worst LOL because he starts out rash and such, but learn to stop doing such things after Toube dies. He went through a lot on his journey with Weed.

I know Jerome has some journey he went through as well, but I think it's a bit sloppily done. Interesting, but still sloppy.
I really liked Kyoushirou's relationship with Toube too (in the manga), they formed a strong bond and Kyou cried the most when Toube was dying and promised to become a good adult for Toube. I wonder if Toube reminded Kyo of that dog who had adopted him...

I want to say Jerome has a good development too, but in the anime version more. In the anime he is plagued with guilt for his comrades' deaths AND for killing P4. So him growing to be fatalist made sense, and then dying/disappearing made his wish to die more poignant. The manga version is sloppier because of Deus Ex Daisuke and after that Jerome just keeps saying 'I just want to die'. If you keep saying this over and over it's no longer tragic, it's just repetitive imo. And now his mate dies just to give him gratuitous manpain...
MurasakiTsuki wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:52 am I'd personally have to say GB. I feel like his character developed a lot through GDW, especially at his death.
I like GB too because he started as very selfish and cowardly, but later no matter how many dangers he goes through and he's always having a bit of fear, but he still goes ahead to do the right thing despite his fear. That's more heroic to me than the born-fearless Weed, Orion and other Manly characters who just don't care about dying anyway.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Dragon »

Ah, how could I forgot Akakama! Thank you Kasi. I think he might give Kyoshiro a run for his money as well. His character was really convincing to me while reading GDWO.

Good point, Atha. Anime Jerome definitely feels like he developed better than his manga self. It's sad, actually. Why couldn't it just be that Jerome can't stand the peaceful life because he's so used to conflicts all the time. Makes sense to me if he's just a dare-devil at heart.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Sonichu »

GB will always top my list! I've grown quite fond of him-he went from a coward saddled with a child to a dashing hero who charged not only villain dogs but shougun and hybrid. His old method of dealing with anything was to run away from it (Lenny at the beginning) or just shut up and let it happen. It's a huge change!
Jerome is a forever dynamic character, he shows no remorse for killing certain dogs (only remorse at what his actions caused) yet cannot tolerate the cruelty of Yukimura's violence (voices disgust at him for pitting puppies against baby Pepe). He seeks to live his life for Weed but is keen to throw it away at any moment. Like Okami said, I believe he is cannot become adjusted to peacetime.
The main reason I enjoy GDWO is the Kamakiri brother's slow transformation into better characters. Kamakiri even going so far as to forgive his mother for abandoning them and let her live in peace with a new family.
Kotetsu! He went from a brat that couldn't take no for an answer and knew nothing of fighting to an upstanding honourable member of the Ou Army (GDWO: He understands Rigel's seething rage at Masashige but advises him that a real solider does not fight those who turn their back).
I have no real opinon on Kyoshiro until more translation is done.
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by 4townie »

I think the best character development is GB. As for worst, Kyoushiro. Yoshi completely butchered his character after GDW (in my opinion.)
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Re: Best character development and worst

Post by Arctic Ranger »

For best development, I have an uncommon suggestion that is bound to be different to almost everybody: Kisaragi. I've always felt that Kisaragi, for the amount of time that he is given, has some quite compelling growth. In the beginning he is someone who, while not specifically powerful, has undeniable success and power to his name, having amassed a huge pack. He is self-assured enough to challenge someone like Terry into a duel on his own, but when it turns out he has underestimated his opponent (or overestimated himself), Kisaragi shows a cowardly nature that I think is very "human" and goes for a cheapshot to secure his victory. Yet Terry's words to him truly strike at his inner self, and a bit later in the story he reflects on this, turning from his former and undoubtedly selfish cause to join forces with Ohu for the greater good.

As for worst development, think there's quite a lot actually, but I'll name a whole group of characters, basically many of the wolves in the wolf arc, they come and go without proper resolutions, or flip on a dime, some fail to completely establish themselves to begin with. There's no doubt in my mind that a lot of this comes down to simply lack of time, which is kinda funny when you consider my opinion on Kisaragi, who doesn't have a lot of time exactly, but he is a center figure for much of that time, while lots of these wolves just get crammed out of the door before they've been even established properly.
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