Breed trouble-shooting

General discussion of topics that encompass more than one of Yoshihiro Takahashi's series, as well as topics relating to Takahashi himself.
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Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:14 pm

All right, we had this on the old Board, created by Arano. And I thought of bringing it back. Where there will be info of where a character's official breed is said. Like in Ginga Seiken Densetsu Meteor Gin, Ginga Densetsu Weed Meishōbu Retsuden, interviews, in the manga itself, etc. We can try to get where their breed is said (like volume, chapter and page number), and if possible link to a pic where it is said as well.
Note this will also include the bears.

And for anything about Dog of Japan, Arano explained it well:
Arano on old GB wrote:While I'm at it as well, the kanji for Kaibutsu is the same for Tesshin and Gon too you say?
和犬の雑種 < Kaibutsu's breed from the Weed book.
The kanji is for "Dog of Japan" (+mix). This is just what dogs in Japan were called before they were separated into breeds; the generic Japanese dog before classification (important note: although it's tempting to say it, 'original' dog is an incorrect term for this because it wasn't one breed that many stemmed from, it was a term for the group of dogs before they were separated into small [Shiba], medium [Shikoku], large [Akita] etc).

Using the generic term for these characters and also saying they're a mix is great come to think of it! Because with Tesshin especially you're meant to believe that he is an old breed due to the Koga clan. Kaibutsu... eh, maybe it was a simple escape route so they could pay attention to his design rather than "what breed he should look like." I guess making a character generic gives you more freedom in terms of design, because as long as they look like a Japanese dog, no-one can really argue can they haha.

I think Japan Dog/dog of Japan might still be used to describe dogs that simply resemble the Japanese spitz type without being able to pin it as a purebred Akita/Hokkaido/burrito... but that's just a theory simply because it doesn't refer to breed. It's interesting ^^

As well as Shepherd as German Shepherd Dog:
Digsu wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:28 pm
It's probably worth noting that "shepherd" (シェパード) in Japanese generally refers specifically to German shepherds and not shepherd-dogs in general.

As per Japanese Wikipedia:
"日本国内ではシェパードと呼称されることも多い。" "In Japan, they are often called "shepherds"."


Also, for notice, check out the topics:
Fix that mix!
and
Redesign a Ginga character!

Ginga Seiken Densetsu Meteor Gin
Gin - Akita
Riki - Akita
Ben - Great Dane
John - Shepherd
Cross - Saluki
Smith - Unknown Spaniel
Great - Unknown
Hyena - Unknown
Sniper - Doberman
Akatora - Kai
Chūtora - Kai
Kurotora - Kai
Moss - Mastiff
Akame - Kishu
Kurojaki - Unknown
Wilson - Collie
Musashi - Tosa
Bill - Doberman
Benizakura - Tosa mix
Kisaragi - Siberian Husky
Uzuki - Siberian Husky
Hazuki - Siberian Husky
Minazuki - Siberian Husky
Oliver - Dachshund
Terry - Mastiff
Bemu - Unknown (Boxer)
Hakurō - Siberian Husky
--
Rikiō - Tosa blood
Niōryū - Tosa fighting dog
Fudōō - Tosa fighting dog
Tsuna Arashi - Tosa fighting dog
Swimmer - Labrador retriever
Kuromamushi - Unknown (but notably resambles Jaguar)
Hurricane - Looks like a Terrier
--
Akakabuto - Asian black bear (presumption; assumption​)
Madara - Asian black bear
Mosa - Asian black bear

All wolves are simply mentioned as wolves and no mix.

-------------------------------------

Ginga Densetsu Weed Meishōbu Retsuden
Weed - Akita
GB - English Setter
Sasuke - Shiba
Smith - French Spaniel mix
Lenny - Golden Retriver
Mel - Golden Retriver
Hook - Labrador Retriver mix
John - Shepherd
Akame - Kishu
Golvy - Siberian Husky
Kuro - Labrador Retriver mix
Sakura - Kishu mix
--
Ken - Great Dane mix
Kagetora - Kai
Jerome - Shepherd
Heuler - Gascon Saintongeois
North - Hokkaido mix
Robert - American Foxhound mix
Rocca - Doberman
Hiro - Great Pyrenees
Tesshin - Dog of Japan mix
Reika - Akita mix
Ben - Great Dane
Cross - Saluki
Tokimune - Akita
Gin - Akita
--
Kaibutsu - Dog of Japan mix
Blue - Beauce Sheepdog (reffering to Beauceron) mix
Ned - English Pointer mix
Bell - Mastiff mix
Nero - Siberian Husky
Banken - Tosa
Demon - American Pitbull
Gon - Dog of Japan mix
Hōgen - Great Dane

-------------------------------------

And then there's also from the My First BIG Special edition that had, linking pics as well:
My First BIG Special
1. Weed - Akita
2. GB - English Setter
3. Ken - Great Dane
4. Kagetora - Kai
5. Smith - Spaniel
6. Mel/Mer - Golden Retiever
7. Sasuke - Shiba
8. Rocket - Borzoi
9. John - Shepherd (though mention in text as German Shepherd Dog)
10. Cross - Saluki
--
11. Akame - Kishu (also mentions Kyōshirō as same breed in text)
12. Thunder - Doberman (also mention Lecter and Murder S (Sniper) as same breed in text)
13. Mole - Dachshund
14. Kisaragi - Siberian Husky
15. Hiro - Great Pyrenees
16. Kamakiri - Irish Wolfhound
17. Moss - Mastiff
18. Tesshin - Kōga Ninken
18. Musashi - Tosa
19. Batto - Weimaraner
20. Izō - Malamute

-------------------------------------

Ginga Densetsu Weed Gengashū
Sasuke - Shiba
Ben - Great Dane
Kagetora - Kai
GB - English Setter
--
Weed - Akita
GB - English Setter
Kyoshiro Shirogane - Kishu
Kagetora - Kai
Mer - Golden Retriever
George - Saluki
Ken - Great Dane
Rocket - Borzoi
Jerome - Shepherd
Hiro - Saint Bernard
Sasuke - Shiba

-------------------------------------
Phewwww...!!!
Those where the easy ones! I stop for now. Feel free to say what breed dogs and bears are and where you find it. Will take a break and then update when I get the chance. ^_^
Last edited by Tora on Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Digsu » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:28 pm

It's probably worth noting that "shepherd" (シェパード) in Japanese generally refers specifically to German shepherds and not shepherd-dogs in general.

As per Japanese Wikipedia:
"日本国内ではシェパードと呼称されることも多い。" "In Japan, they are often called "shepherds"."

Saburou is called a Shikoku Inu by Rocket. (GDW 7, page 176)
Stone refers to himself as a German shepherd mix. (GDW 16, page 128)
"Jerome's helpers" in the anime (Ryo, Ryu, Hanji, and Heita) are labeled as "Shikoku" in production materials.
Mukku is referred to as an Akita mix. (GDW 23, page 11)
Kurokirimaru and his brother are referred to as Kai mixes in narration. (GDWO 18, page 17)
Masashige is referred to as an Akita mix in the same bit of narration.
Smith is referred to as an English Spring spaniel in GNG studio sheets.
Great is referred to as a Great Dane in the same studio sheets.
Last edited by Digsu on Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Regnant » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:57 pm

Going to pop in here for the bears :D

Asian black bears (moon bears) are really small bears. They only reach about 400lbs. I know some of the random unnamed bears do have the moon marking, but Mosa and Madara do not. Something seriously has to be in the water that makes all these bears grizzly size or bigger, because moon bears are tiny!

Unless they are actually Ezo/Ussuri brown bears! They can appear as a range from brown to black fur (as most brown/black bears can), and actually in the past they were thought to hybrids of grizzly and moon which may explain the wrong labelling. I think this is much more likely! They also have been known to attack people more often than a lot of other bear species.
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Mako » Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:03 am

Hyena is referred to as a Weimaraner in the studio sheets.
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 am

Digsu wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:28 pm
It's probably worth noting that "shepherd" (シェパード) in Japanese generally refers specifically to German shepherds and not shepherd-dogs in general.

As per Japanese Wikipedia:
"日本国内ではシェパードと呼称されることも多い。" "In Japan, they are often called "shepherds"."
Info added about that in first post, as well as updated it with from the Art Book.


Also, if possible, tell the volume and chapter (and if possible even page) where the breed is mentioned. ^^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Digsu » Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:11 pm

Tora wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 am
Also, if possible, tell the volume and chapter (and if possible even page) where the breed is mentioned. ^^
Done! I edited the post and put the volume and page numbers in there.



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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:11 pm

Digsu wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 1:11 pm
Tora wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:57 am
Also, if possible, tell the volume and chapter (and if possible even page) where the breed is mentioned. ^^
Done! I edited the post and put the volume and page numbers in there.
Thank you. ^_^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Kaiken » Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:45 am

I'd say Rocca is either a beauceron, German shepherd or GSD and doberman mix.
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:21 pm

Kaiken wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:45 am
I'd say Rocca is either a beauceron, German shepherd or GSD and doberman mix.
Why I linked to the "Fix that mix" topic. As here I want to keep the official breeds where it's mentioned. ^^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Kaiken » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:53 pm

Tora wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:21 pm
Kaiken wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:45 am
I'd say Rocca is either a beauceron, German shepherd or GSD and doberman mix.
Why I linked to the "Fix that mix" topic. As here I want to keep the official breeds where it's mentioned. ^^
Oh. Sorry. My bad!
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:07 pm

Kaiken wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:53 pm
Tora wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:21 pm
Kaiken wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:45 am
I'd say Rocca is either a beauceron, German shepherd or GSD and doberman mix.
Why I linked to the "Fix that mix" topic. As here I want to keep the official breeds where it's mentioned. ^^
Oh. Sorry. My bad!
No worries ^_^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Isa » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:15 pm

Wonder if Smith is a black and white English Springer spaniel.

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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by HoshiShibe_K9 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 pm

Tora wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:14 pm
All right, we had this on the old Board, created by Arano. And I thought of bringing it back. Where there will be info of where a character's official breed is said. Like in Ginga Seiken Densetsu Meteor Gin, Ginga Densetsu Weed Meishōbu Retsuden, interviews, in the manga itself, etc. We can try to get where their breed is said (like volume, chapter and page number), and if possible link to a pic where it is said as well.
Note this will also include the bears.

And for anything about Dog of Japan, Arano explained it well:
Arano on old GB wrote:While I'm at it as well, the kanji for Kaibutsu is the same for Tesshin and Gon too you say?
和犬の雑種 < Kaibutsu's breed from the Weed book.
The kanji is for "Dog of Japan" (+mix). This is just what dogs in Japan were called before they were separated into breeds; the generic Japanese dog before classification (important note: although it's tempting to say it, 'original' dog is an incorrect term for this because it wasn't one breed that many stemmed from, it was a term for the group of dogs before they were separated into small [Shiba], medium [Shikoku], large [Akita] etc).

Using the generic term for these characters and also saying they're a mix is great come to think of it! Because with Tesshin especially you're meant to believe that he is an old breed due to the Koga clan. Kaibutsu... eh, maybe it was a simple escape route so they could pay attention to his design rather than "what breed he should look like." I guess making a character generic gives you more freedom in terms of design, because as long as they look like a Japanese dog, no-one can really argue can they haha.

I think Japan Dog/dog of Japan might still be used to describe dogs that simply resemble the Japanese spitz type without being able to pin it as a purebred Akita/Hokkaido/burrito... but that's just a theory simply because it doesn't refer to breed. It's interesting ^^

As well as Shepherd as German Shepherd Dog:
Digsu wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:28 pm
It's probably worth noting that "shepherd" (シェパード) in Japanese generally refers specifically to German shepherds and not shepherd-dogs in general.

As per Japanese Wikipedia:
"日本国内ではシェパードと呼称されることも多い。" "In Japan, they are often called "shepherds"."


Also, for notice, check out the topics:
Fix that mix!
and
Redesign a Ginga character!

Ginga Seiken Densetsu Meteor Gin
Gin - Akita
Riki - Akita
Ben - Great Dane
John - Shepherd
Cross - Saluki
Smith - Unknown Spaniel
Great - Unknown
Hyena - Unknown
Sniper - Doberman
Akatora - Kai
Chūtora - Kai
Kurotora - Kai
Moss - Mastiff
Akame - Kishu
Kurojaki - Unknown
Wilson - Collie
Musashi - Tosa
Bill - Doberman
Benizakura - Tosa mix
Kisaragi - Siberian Husky
Uzuki - Siberian Husky
Hazuki - Siberian Husky
Minazuki - Siberian Husky
Oliver - Dachshund
Terry - Mastiff
Bemu - Unknown (Boxer)
Hakurō - Siberian Husky
--
Rikiō - Tosa blood
Niōryū - Tosa fighting dog
Fudōō - Tosa fighting dog
Tsuna Arashi - Tosa fighting dog
Swimmer - Labrador retriever
Kuromamushi - Unknown (but notably resambles Jaguar)
Hurricane - Looks like a Terrier
--
Akakabuto - Asian black bear (presumption; assumption​)
Madara - Asian black bear
Mosa - Asian black bear

All wolves are simply mentioned as wolves and no mix.

-------------------------------------

Ginga Densetsu Weed Meishōbu Retsuden
Weed - Akita
GB - English Setter
Sasuke - Shiba
Smith - French Spaniel mix
Lenny - Golden Retriver
Mel - Golden Retriver
Hook - Labrador Retriver mix
John - Shepherd
Akame - Kishu
Golvy - Siberian Husky
Kuro - Labrador Retriver mix
Sakura - Kishu mix
--
Ken - Great Dane mix
Kagetora - Kai
Jerome - Shepherd
Heuler - Gascon Saintongeois
North - Hokkaido mix
Robert - American Foxhound mix
Rocca - Doberman
Hiro - Great Pyrenees
Tesshin - Dog of Japan mix
Reika - Akita mix
Ben - Great Dane
Cross - Saluki
Tokimune - Akita
Gin - Akita
--
Kaibutsu - Dog of Japan mix
Blue - Beauce Sheepdog (reffering to Beauceron) mix
Ned - English Pointer mix
Bell - Mastiff mix
Nero - Siberian Husky
Banken - Tosa
Demon - American Pitbull
Gon - Dog of Japan mix
Hōgen - Great Dane

-------------------------------------

And then there's also from the My First BIG Special edition that had, linking pics as well:
My First BIG Special
1. Weed - Akita
2. GB - English Setter
3. Ken - Great Dane
4. Kagetora - Kai
5. Smith - Spaniel
6. Mel/Mer - Golden Retiever
7. Sasuke - Shiba
8. Rocket - Borzoi
9. John - Shepherd (though mention in text as German Shepherd Dog)
10. Cross - Saluki
--
11. Akame - Kishu (also mentions Kyōshirō as same breed in text)
12. Thunder - Doberman (also mention Lecter and Murder S (Sniper) as same breed in text)
13. Mole - Dachshund
14. Kisaragi - Siberian Husky
15. Hiro - Great Pyrenees
16. Kamakiri - Irish Wolfhound
17. Moss - Mastiff
18. Tesshin - Kōga Ninken
18. Musashi - Tosa
19. Batto - Weimaraner
20. Izō - Malamute

-------------------------------------

Ginga Densetsu Weed Gengashū
Sasuke - Shiba
Ben - Great Dane
Kagetora - Kai
GB - English Setter
--
Weed - Akita
GB - English Setter
Kyoshiro Shirogane - Kishu
Kagetora - Kai
Mer - Golden Retriever
George - Saluki
Ken - Great Dane
Rocket - Borzoi
Jerome - Shepherd
Hiro - Saint Bernard
Sasuke - Shiba

-------------------------------------
Phewwww...!!!
Those where the easy ones! I stop for now. Feel free to say what breed dogs and bears are and where you find it. Will take a break and then update when I get the chance. ^_^

I must add that you kinda forgot Bemu.
Bemu is a Boxer :bemu:
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm

HoshiShibe_K9 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 pm
Tora wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:14 pm
Terry - Mastiff
Bemu - Unknown (Boxer)
Hakurō - Siberian Husky
--

I must add that you kinda forgot Bemu.
Bemu is a Boxer :bemu:
Actually, Bemu is there. ^^
Reason Boxer is in brackets () it's because that what it says in the book: ボクサー系 (boxer lineage), after it saying "unknown". ^_^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by HoshiShibe_K9 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:07 am

Tora wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:34 pm
HoshiShibe_K9 wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 10:58 pm
Tora wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:14 pm
Terry - Mastiff
Bemu - Unknown (Boxer)
Hakurō - Siberian Husky
--

I must add that you kinda forgot Bemu.
Bemu is a Boxer :bemu:
Actually, Bemu is there. ^^
Reason Boxer is in brackets () it's because that what it says in the book: ボクサー系 (boxer lineage), after it saying "unknown". ^_^

Ooh! I see your point! sorry ;^-^
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Shining Sirius » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:24 am

I'm under the same impression as Mako - I always thought it was canon that Hyena was a Weimaraner, too.
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Re: Breed trouble-shooting

Post by Tora » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:40 am

Shining Sirius wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:24 am
I'm under the same impression as Mako - I always thought it was canon that Hyena was a Weimaraner, too.
Mako wrote:
Fri Dec 14, 2018 12:03 am
Hyena is referred to as a Weimaraner in the studio sheets.
As what Mako said, it's on a studio sheet of Hyena. As well I think it's from an intervew somewhere as well. It just doens't say so in these too book I have. ^^
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